Gog, the Antichrist, the Assyrian, & the Timing of Ezekiel 38

To Honor Jesus Christ, Glorify God, Encourage Believers, & Warn All
Est 08-15-2004 Changed 08-16-2006
 

This information is offered with the hope that YOU can come to KNOW the Lord personally.


The objective here is to answer the following questions:

1) Is the "Assyrian" the antichrist?
2) When is the invasion of Israel by Gog?
3) Is "Gog" also the "Assyrian?"
4) Is "Gog" the antichrist?
5) Does the "Assyrian" invade Israel?

Let's read Micah 5:2 - Micah 5:7 as a first step.

Jesus Christ is to Become Ruler in Israel During the 1000 Year Reign
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that isto be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. -- Micah 5:2  [From the last phrase we can see that Jesus Christ is God.]

He Becomes Ruler When the Remnant of Israel ( his brethren ) Are Restored
Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.     -- Micah 5:3

At the Time Jesus Will Be Great Throughout the Entire Earth, during the 1000 Year Reign
And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.      -- Micah 5:4

Jesus Christ Will Be Ruler After the ASSYRIAN Comes and Treads In Israel's Palaces
And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces , then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men .    -- Micah 5:5  

 He [the antichrist] shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain...
- Daniel 11:45.  We know that this person who puts his headquarters in Israel is the antichrist. Consequently, since the Assyrian treads in our palaces and the antichrist of Dan 11:45 plants the tabernacles ofhis palace in Israel, they must be the same person, unless another treads the palaces of Israel and we find none other.  
Therefore, we have the answer to our question 1 - Is the "Assyrian" the antichrist?  The answer is - Yes, the Assyrian is the antichrist.  For more information on the Assyrian origin of the antichrist read this .

Antichrist's Own Land (Assyria, the Land of Nimrod) Is Destroyed After He Treads Israel's Borders
And they [the Israelites, his brethren] shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land , and when he treadeth within our borders. -- Micah 5:6

The city of Nineveh was the ancient capital of Assyria, which was located near the present day town of Mosul in northern Iraq.  Nimrod established the city of Babylon & erected the Tower of Babel in Iraq.  Apparently, the Israelites will waste the land of Nimrod after Christ returns because they would be unable to waste it during the tribulation because of the persecution of the Jews and the tribulation saints by the antichrist.

And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.    And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech , and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.    Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,    -- Genesis 10:8-11  [More on Calneh ]


Israel Will Become a Blessing in the Midst of the Nations During the 1000 Year Reign of Christ
And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.     -- Micah 5:7

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After the ASSYRIAN Smites Israel, the Voice of the LORD Beats Him Down
For through the voice of the LORD shall the ASSYRIAN be beaten down, which smote with a rod. -- Isa 30:31

[Since we have already established that the Assyrian is the antichrist, we know Isa 30:31 can not be until Jesus Christ returns in Rev 19:19 because we find the "beast", another name for the antichrist, and the kings, and their armies waiting to fight against Christ as He descends from heaven.  Notice that the antichrist shall be beaten down because he (past tense) "smote."  Therefore, he is beaten down upon the return of the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of the tribulation in Revelation 19:19, which occurs after the Assyrian antichrist smote [Israel] with a rod during the second half of the tribulation.  In fact, the antichrist is not killed, but is cast alive into the lake of fire.

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. -- Revelation 19:19

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.     -- Revelation 19:20]

The ASSYRIAN is the Rod of God's Anger Against Unbelieving Israel
O ASSYRIAN, the rod of mine anger , and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.  I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey , and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few. -- Isa 10:5-7  [The antichrist has no idea he is the antichrist based upon this last sentence.]

The LORD Punishes the Assyrian When He Has Finished His Whole Work Upon Mt Zion, Jerusalem
Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his WHOLE WORK upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem , I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria , and the glory of his high looks.   -- Isa 10:12 
[Since the Lord will not finish his whole work upon mount Zion and Jerusalem until He physically returns, then, the King of Assyria is a future Assyrian king, not the ancient king of Assyria.]

The  LORD Will Break the Assyrian in Israel
The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: That I will break the ASSYRIAN in my land , and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them . This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.  For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? -- Isa 14:24-27

 [The burden of the antichrist is removed when he is cast alive into the lake of fire in Rev 19:20 after Jesus Christ returns.  Up until that time he "continues for forty and two months " during the last half of the tribulation period.  The antichrist's yoke shall depart from off [Israel] at the time the LORD of hosts break [s] the ASSYRIAN in my land .  A "yoke" is a continuing burden (an "occupation" if you will, such "occupation" being sent forth from the tabernacles of his palace.  This "yoke " is to be distinguished from a military incursion.  Such an incursion may take place (and we will get to that shortly).  However, the point here is to show that the antichrist occupies when he shall tread in our [the Jews'] palaces.  In order to occupy the palaces, the antichrist must have a successful incursion.

Some maintain that since Gog shall " fall upon the mountains of Israel" (Ezekiel 39:4) that Gog is the Assyrian and that the Ezekiel 38-39 invasion is the invasion of Jerusalem by the Assyrian.  This view may have been taken because Isa 14:25 says the Assyrian is broken "upon my mountains".   However, we have already shown that the breaking of the Assyrian is to end the burden ( yoke) of the Assyrian occupation in the palaces of the Jews.  Such is not the case in the Ezekiel 38-39 Gog invasion.  Gog NEVER makes a successful incursion resulting in occupation of Israel, but is killed during the attempt.  Consequently, Gog can impose no yoke or burden upon Israel, especially one that lasts until the physical return of Jesus, the time of the punishment of the Assyrian.

In fact, the Gog invasion is for the express purpose of demonstrating the KNOWLEDGE of THE LORD to the heathen because the LORD HIMSELF destroys Gog in order that He be sanctified in Gog before their eyes.

And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.    -- Ezekiel 38:16
On page 353 of Things to Come by Dwight Pentecost, we read a contrary viewpoint  " This scourge [as a result of the covenant with deathand agreement with hell of Isa 28:18, which we all know is the false peace agreement to which Israel falls prey] could hardly be the occupation by the beast [antichrist], for he was a party to the covenant, but must refer to the invasion by the "Assyrian" who will be used by the Lord to chasten Israel.  The destruction of the Assyrian in the passages referred to seems to parallel the destruction of the armies of Gog in Ezekiel 38-39, and thus, are considered parallel references . "
Here we have Dwight Pentecost saying that the Assyrian is Gog (and the Assyrian is NOT the antichrist).  We have already shown that the antichrist is the Assyrian.  Superficial examination of Mr Pentecost's quote could yield a quick agreement with his thesis that the antichrist's occupation of Israel is "benign" since the antichrist was a party to the "peace covenant."  However, we have demonstrated that the antichrist is never described in the scripture as being a party to the peace covenant, but, is instead an enforcer ("confirm[er]") of the ALREADY EXISTING COVENANT .   Therefore, the "scourge" resulting from the "covenant" to which Pentecost refers and which is admitted (by Pentecost) to be the Assyrian is indeed the antichrist himself.

Additionally, in the same book, Things to Come , he states on pg 334 that antichrist is called the Assyrian, thus proving, (if we did not know already) how difficult it is to correlate all the scriptures into a unified whole.  Though he does appear to be referring to another source, he makes no critique of  the author's assertion that the antichrist is the Assyrian, leaving the reader to believe that the antichrist is the Assyrian, which we have already shown to be the case.

Pentecost states that the timing of the Gog/Magog invasion is  near the mid-tribulation as opposed to the end of the tribulation because

Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations , and they shall know that I am the LORD. -- Ezekiel 38:23

Pentecost's point (with which I agree) is that it does little good for the Lord to be known to many nations at the end of the tribulation.  Where would be the opportunity to be saved?  It seems that being known in the eyes of many nations is for the purpose of turning the lost to the Lord.  Further, since the Lord at the end of the millennium has already filled the earth with knowledge of Himself for 1000 years, He would not destroy Gog for increasing knowledge of Himself after having done so for 1,000 years.  Additionally, since the earth is burned by fire at the end of the millennium,

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.    -- 2 Peter 3:10

why would there be a need to purge the land (Eze 39:11-13) of the bodies (if the Gog invasion was at the end of the millennium)? Consequently, the Gog invasion is at the mid-point of the tribulation or more probably even earlier.  Answer to question 2 - When is the invasion of Israel by Gog?  Since Gog invades at a time when Israel is at peace (Eze 38:8,11), it could well be that the Gog invasion occurs after the rapture, but immediately before Daniel's 70th week begins. For the invasion to occur at the mid-tribulation, since the invasion occurs when Israel dwells safely, the first half of the tribulation must have peaceful characteristics.  This seems unlikely and argues for a pre-tribulation (or early tribulation) invasion.

Let's read of the Gog Invasion-

And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;  So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.  And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.   And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; andI will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD. -- Ezekiel 38:18-23

And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, andwill cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:   And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.     Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel , thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.  
-- Ezekiel 39:2-4

Note that THOU [Gog] shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel and be fed to the ravenous birds and beasts of the field.  Since Gog DIES without entering the city before he imposes a burdenous "yoke" upon Israel and since the Lord says the Assyrian shall tread in our palaces (Micah 5:5), then Gog can not be the Assyrian.  The Lord would hardly be manifesting Himself to nations if He allowed the Gog invasion to result in tread [ing] in Israel's palaces .  Further, the Lord said that -

Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his WHOLE WORK upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem , I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria , and the glory of his high looks.   -- Isa 10:12
If the Lord kills Gog at the mid-point of the tribulation (as asserted by Pentecost), how can Gog punish his high looks after He returns to earth and finishes His work upon Jerusalem (if Gog IS the Assyrian)?  Gog will already be dead.  Along this same line of thought reread this-

For through the voice of the LORD shall the ASSYRIAN be beaten down, which smote with a rod. -- Isa 30:31

If Gog is unsuccessful in his invasion of Israel, how can it be said of him that Gog is the Assyrian who smote with a rod?  That is the whole point of the LORD destroying Gog - to prove He is God BEFORE they harm Israel.
 
We have the answer to our question 3 - Is "Gog" also the "Assyrian?"  No.  Gog can not be the Assyrian.

Further, since we read above -

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. -- Revelation 19:19

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.     -- Revelation 19:20

We have the answer to Question 4 - Is "Gog" the antichrist?
The antichrist (unlike Gog) is ALIVE at the second coming; whereas, Gog was killed upon his attempt to invade Israel.  Therefore, Gog can not be the antichrist.   We have shown previously that Gog can not be the Assyrian.  This leaves us with one other choice - the Assyrian is the antichrist and Gog is a political ruler from the north parts.  

--

Now we come to the topic of Question 5 - Does the Assyrian invade Israel?

We have demonstrated here that the answer to this question is yes.
Since the antichrist and the Assyrian are the same person, this means the antichrist will conduct a military campaign against the King of the South that includes an eventual occupation of his (the antichrist's) palace in Israel.

Admittedly, given the current situation on the ground, these scenarios are more difficult to fit the present political facts.  However, they are scripturally logical and when the time comes the events will unfold just as the scriptures state.

Examples of difficulties -
Kurds in support of Israel obstructing a northern invasion
US military obstructing an invasion from the north


08-21-2005

Reader asserts that Gog invasion is at time of Armageddon

Consider the following statement concerning Israel's restoration, found only two verses after Ezekiel's invitation to the birds:

"So shall the house of Israel know that I am the LORD their God, from that day and onward"(Ezekiel 39:22). It is clear that the period Written as, "that day and onward," is referring to an endless period that begins at the day of Gog's destruction. But if we place that day of destruction in the first half of the Week, then we must view Israel as knowing the LORD their God forever beginning in the first half of the Week...something altogether strange in all of the Bible. To the contrary, prophecy tells us that God will hide Himself from Israel in the second half of the Week so that "that day and onward" cannot begin in the first half, but is much better viewed as Spoken after the Week, as a result of Armageddon.

All of prophecy relating to Israel's endless blessings, which includes the opening of the eyes of the Jews when Jesus appears visibly before every eye in Israel, commences at Armageddon. Thus, because "that day and onward" refers to Armageddon and onwards, Gog is destroyed at Armageddon...wherefore it becomes irresistible to equate him with the anti-Christ.

In Ezekiel 38:16 we read that, as a result of Gog's destruction, the nations will know God also. In verse 23, the LORD repeats this claim: "I will be known in the eyes of many nations." Apparently, those teachers who insist that Gog is destroyed early in the Week, or even prior to the Week, must be strangely convinced that the nations will know the LORD at that time. But how can this be when Revelation makes it plain that the nations will reject Him plague-after-plague until the very last one: Armageddon? How can the nations know God when they are all receiving the mark of the beast?

But 39:21 conflicts with these teachers all the more by saying, that as a result of Gog's destruction, "I will put my glory among the nations," an event that cannot happen during the Week, nor even during Armageddon, but only after Armageddon has Punished the nations.

Through this same Ezekiel prophecy, the LORD becomes much more persuasive along these lines:

"Now [as a result of Gog's destruction] I will remove the captivity of Jacob, and will have mercy on all the house of Israel..." (Ezekiel 39:25) "I will not any more hide My face from them..." (Ezekiel 39:29) 

Do you see that this is post-trib' talk? Indeed, it is post-Armageddon talk. How could God have placed Gog's defeat at Armageddon more convincingly? It is made plain that, via Gog's attack on Israel, the LORD was hiding his face from Israel, but via Gog's destruction, God would never again hide his face from Israel, wherefore Gog's destruction cannot be prior to the 42 months of the LORD's trampling of Israel. Is it not clear, therefore, that the period of hiding His face will be during those 42 months???


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Part2 from the Same Reader Asserts that Gog=the antichrist

The subject in Isaiah 14, the "king of Babylon," seems to be portraying Satan. At least, that is what most Christians believe. For it says of him, "O shining star, son of the morning! How you have fallen from heaven". It is for a good reason that God should portray a human king as Satan, if it's a reference to the anti-Christ.

There are other clues in the text helping us to evaluate this "king of Babylon" as our end-time arch enemy. For example, he is, curiously, not permitted a burial in a grave, unlike all other kings. It says of him, "You shall be cast from your grave," and, "You shall not be united with them [the other kings of the earth] in burial, because you ruined your land and you have slain your [own] people" (Isaiah 14:19-20). This harmonizes perfectly with Revelation 19 where we see the anti-Christ thrown alive into the "lake of fire" (probably in the vicinity of the Dead Sea in ancient Edom). Where Isaiah 14 speaks of this "king of Babylon" in "Sheol" (vs 9-11), my take is that his soul ends up in Sheol after his body burns to death in the Lake of Fire. Note that his place will be in the very depths of Sheol (v 15).

It is true that Ezekiel 39:11 tells that Gog will be buried on the east of the Dead sea, which is the land of Edom. This burial has led some to conclude that Gog could not be the anti-Christ. But Isaiah also tells that in Edom there will be a fire burning non-stop that seems to me the likely location of the Lake of Fire spoken of in Revelation 19 (i.e. wherein the Beast will be thrown alive). For in Isaiah we see language resembling that of Revelation. Indeed, the following is in Isaiah 34:10, that the fire kindled in Armageddon at Edom  "shall not be put out night or day; it's smoke shall rise forever..."

My take is that "forever" in this Biblical case (and others) refers only to all generations and only while there is day and night i.e. the Millennium only, for there will no longer be generations after the Millennium, and moreover this age will then end. Nor will there be day and night after the Millennium. Thus, I interpret "forever" as "to the end of the age." I therefore see the Lake of Fire as kindled for one thousand years only, but whether right or wrong on that score, it appears certain in my mind that the Beast, who is Gog, is tossed into the Lake of Fire at Edom, and there he will also have his grave.



John

Answer
Thank you for your letters.

If the antichrist comes against Israel and is killed on the mountains (prior to entry), how is it that he treads in the palaces of Israel (Micah 5:5) and establishes his palaces in Jerusalem (Dan 11:45)?

Since the Bible is clear that the antichrist does establish his palaces in Jerusalem/Israel, why would the antichrist then invade from outside Israel (the north) when he is already in Israel occupying his headquarters?  Now, we can go on and on about this.

If Gog comes from the north at the end of Daniel's 70th week (as you say),  what is he doing in the "north"?  I thought he was in the temple showing himself to be God.  Did he leave and go north?  If so, why?  How is it that the Lord manifests himself to even the heathen by allowing Gog (as you say) to trample all over Israel/Jerusalem for 42 months in the temple in Jerusalem?  Did the antichrist get kicked out of the temple?  Did he leave voluntarily?

From the website-
  The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: That I will break the ASSYRIAN in my land , and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them . This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.  For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? -- Isa 14:24-27

 [The burden of the antichrist is removed when he is cast alive into the lake of fire in Rev 19:20 after Jesus Christ returns.  Up until that time he "continues for forty and two months " during the last half of the tribulation period.  The antichrist's yoke shall depart from off [Israel] at the time the LORD of hosts break [s] the ASSYRIAN in my land .  A "yoke" is a continuing burden (an "occupation" if you will, such "occupation" being sent forth from the tabernacles of his palace.  This "yoke " is to be distinguished from a military incursion.  Such an incursion may take place (and we will get to that shortly).  However, the point here is to show that the antichrist occupies when he shall tread in our [the Jews'] palaces.  In order to occupy the palaces, the antichrist must have a successful incursion.

Gog invades when Israel is at peace Eze 38:11.  Since you have the Gog invasion at the end of the tribulation, are you saying that the occupation of Israel and the persecution of the Jews by the antichrist during the 42 months constitutes "at rest", "dwell safely" and within "unwalled villages?" How can Israel be at rest when Israel is being  smitten "by a rod" (Isa 30:31) and how can there be a yoke on Israel and Israel also be "at rest?"  This clearly makes the end of tribulation Gog invasion impossible.

Ergo, the Gog invasion must be earlier.  Now since the Gog invasion must of necessity be earlier, and since Gog is killed upon his invasion, Gog can not possibly be the antichrist.

Russell

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Another reader responds to my answer thusly- 

Russell,
 
I read you current info on Gog, the Assyrian, antichrist, etc.  You have some very good points and certainly there are huge supporting Scriptures from Micah and Daniel for the 1,000 year reign of the Lord on earth.
 
Here is one thing you might consider regarding the identification of Gog and the Assyrian. I think that Exekiel's vision is structured like many of the prophets where they speak of an initial event and then skip to a final conclusion without necessarily covering the details in between.
 
Gog's invasion from the north is the initial event. His defeat at Armageddon is the final event. God addresses Gog (whom I believe to be Satan including his relationship to the beast (Abaddon) and the human king of the north..the little horn) and actually draws him to invade Israel.
 
The vision then moves to God's destruction of Gog's (Satan's) antichrist, the beast/little horn...the Assyrian at Armageddon. The occupation, rule, and persecution of Israel for 42 months is just not in the scope of Ezekiel's vision. This is not an uncommon structure for prophetic visions.
 
God's purpose is to draw Satan and allow him to attack and occupy Israel. God then turns on him to destroy his kingdom of iron and clay. The little horn king of the north, the Assyrian, is killed at Armageddon and buried along with his armies and followers. The beast (Abaddon) is destroyed in the lake of fire, and Satan is sent to the abyss for 1,000 years.
 
Revelation and Daniel describe the same, but with more details covering events between the initial attack and the final showdown at Armageddon.
 
When Satan (Gog) is released from the abyss after 1,000 years he goes forth to deceive the nations (symbolically called Magog) again. Satan is Gog in tribulation period during the 70th week and he is Gog when he is released to deceive again.
 
I think that God calls him Gog because of his association with Magog's original geographical settlements in the northern part of the Fertile Crescent just after the flood. The area today is where you have indicated as northern Iraq. The Akkadian/Assyrians were the next to rule a larger Middle Eastastern empire from the same area.
 
We should watch for developments in that area today for the little horn will arise from there. There will be 10 other Middle Eastern rulers who will unite under his rule. (He will remove and replace 3 of them  at the onset).
 
I also think that the covenant with "many" (Daniel 9) and "many" are with thee (Ezekiel 38,39) is the same alliance and is for the purpose of conquering the Middle East and the elimination of Israel (also see Psalms 83).
 
This confirmation of "the covenant" could turn out to be an Islamic version of the Abrahamic covenant that God has with Israel. Islam already considers God's covenant to be with them rather than Israel.
 
Stephen

My RESPONSE

Well, Stephen,
 
If, as you say, the antichrist is Gog and is destroyed at the 2nd coming (as described in Eze), then, the following questions still apply-
 
 Since the Bible is clear that the antichrist does establish his palaces in Jerusalem/Israel, why would the antichrist then invade from outside Israel (the north) when he is already in Israel occupying his headquarters?  Now, we can go on and on about this.

If Gog comes from the north at the end of Daniel's 70th week (as you say),  what is he doing in the "north"?  I thought he was in the temple showing himself to be God.  Did he leave and go north?  If so, why?  How is it that the Lord manifests himself to even the heathen by allowing Gog (as you say) to trample all over Israel/Jerusalem for 42 months in the temple in Jerusalem?  Did the antichrist get kicked out of the temple?  Did he leave voluntarily?
 
So, you must be saying that the following verses are 7 years long-
 
It shall come to pass at the SAME TIME when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken; surely in that day there shall be a great quaking in the land of Israel;...I will plead against him...  I will rain upon him...rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone... Eze 38:18-38:22  These 5 verses say clearly that at the time Gog comes against the land of Israel, the Lord will destroy him
 
For Gog to be the antichrist is impossible, since the antichrist will already have OCCUPIED Israel for 42 months.  What would he be doing coming against the land of Israel (from the north parts) Eze 39:2, if he is ALREADY in Jerusalem posing as God?  Your interpretation goes against the plain sense of the verse.  The use of the words AT THE SAME TIME can not be changed to be 7 years or 3 and one half years in length.
 
Russell



End 08-21-2005



05-06-2006

Letter From Reader

Dear Russell,
 
I'm a 59 year old retired Marine and have been a student of Bible prophecy all my life. I recently read Jack Kelly's series of articles called, "Seven Things You Have to Know to Understand End Times Prophecy" and your article entitled, "Gog, the Antichrist, the Assyrian, & the Timing of Ezekiel 38". I agree wholeheartedly with most of the information you bothe present in these articles -- that is, I believe in a pre-trib Rapture, Daniel's 70th week, the Second Coming, the Millennial Reign of Christ and Eternity in that order.
 
However, it is regarding his and your "sequence of events" that I must take issue, specifically, the timing of the Gog-Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39. A careful comparison of Scripture with Scripture and much prayerful study over a long period of time has led me to the conclusion that Ezekiel's Gog-Magog war and the Battle of Armageddon described by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, and other prophets before the days of Ezekiel, as well as by the beloved Apostle John in the Book of Revelation, are the same event. Further, these comparisons have convinced me that Gog of Magog, the Assyrian, and the Antichrist are all one and the same person. Ezekiel 38:17 proves this fact beyond doubt.
 
"Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?"
 
The Lord GOD is speaking directly to Gog of Magog ("he of whom I have spoken"). It is evident in searching thru all the other books of the "prophets of Israel" that the Antichrist is referred to many times by many names, but, here in Ezekiel is the only place in the Bible we have a reference to a Prince called "Gog". So, if God's "servants the prophets of Israel" "prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee (Gog) against them", Gog and Antichrist have to be the same person because the only person the others prophesied about invading Israel was Antichrist.
 
I realize that most Bible scholars believe the land of Magog refers to lands encompassed by modern Russia. This does not, however, mean that Gog, himself, has to be a Russian in order to lead a coalition of "many nations" including Russia into battle. We know from a study of Daniel 11:35-45 that the Antichrist will come from the Syrian (Selucid) division of the former Grecian Empire and that other passages refer to him as "the Assyrian", "the King of the North", the "Prince that shall come", "the Beast", "the Son of Perdition", "that evil one", "a wicked counsellor", etc. Now, thanks to Ezekiel, we can also refer to him as Gog of the land of Magog, the Chief Prince of Meshech and Tubal. I think with a little careful study you will find historically that Meshech and Tubal were located in the area of modern Turkey, not Russia, and Turkey was definitely a part of the Syrian or Selucid portion of the four divisions of the former Greek Empire.
 
Only by firmly establishing the identity of Gog, can we correctly place the timing of the war that destroys him which is Armageddon. From Dake's Annotated Reference Bible, Rev. Dake offers 14 proofs that Armageddon is the battle referred to in Ezekiel 38-39.
 
Fourteen Proofs Armageddon Is Referred to Here:
 
(1) Not one statement in these two chapters (Ez: 38-39) mention a war in Israel before Armageddon [or after].
 
(2) The battle of Armageddon is the only war predicted by the prophets that could possibly be referred to in these chapters (Ezek. 38:17). Armageddon is mentioned many times by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, and other prophets before the days of Ezekiel (Isa. 1:25-31; 3:25-26; 13:1-16; 24:21; 63:1-6; Jer. 25:30-33; 30:11,20-24; Joel 2-3; Oba. 1:15-21; Mic. 1:3-4; 2:12-13; 5:5-15; etc.).
 
(3) The destruction of Gog and his armies (Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-6,17-20) compares with similar statements about Armageddon in Joel 3; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21.
 
(4) Gog will not fall upon the open field until Armageddon (Ezek. 39:3-5; Rev. 19:11-21).
 
(5) The great supper for the fowls and beasts will only be at Armageddon (Ezek. 39:4,17-20 with Mt. 24:27-28; Rev. 19:17-21).
 
(6) The presence of God (as pictured in Ezek. 38:18-21; 39:1-6,17-24) will not be until Armageddon (Isa. 63:1-6; Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 19:11-21).
 
(7) The supernatural destruction of Gog and his armies (as described in Ezek. 38:21-23) will not be until Armageddon (Isa. 63:1-6; Joel 2-3; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21).
 
(8) God will not magnify and sanctify Himself and set His glory among the heathen (as stated in Ezek. 38:23; 39:21-24) until He comes at the second coming of Christ -- at Armageddon (Zech. 14:1-21; Mt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21).
 
(9) Gog will not bring the many armies of the nations into Israel to be destroyed until the time of the second coming of Christ, at Armageddon, as referred to in Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-7 and proved in Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 16:13-16; 19:11-21.
 
(10) The great earthquake of Ezek. 38:20 will not take place until the seventh vial and the second coming (Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 16:17-21; 19:11-21).
 
(11) God's presence will not destroy Gog and his army until the second coming, at Armageddon (Ezek. 38:20; 39:2-7 with Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 19:11-21).
 
(12) Gog and his army cannot be destroyed in a war in Israel before the second coming, at Armageddon, to fulfill Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-7,17-20, and then be destroyed again at Armageddon to fulfill Isa. 63; Joel 2-3; Zech. 14. We must therefore recognize all these passages as referring to the same destruction -- at Armageddon (Rev. 19:11-21).
 
(13) The burial of Gog and all his armies destroyed in the fulfillment of Ezek. 38-39 will be at the second coming of Christ (Ezek. 39:11-16 with Dan. 7:11; 2Th. 2:8-12; Rev. 19:11-21).
 
(14) It is at the second coming of Christ that God's glory will be set among the heathen and Israel will be completely gathered and blessed (Ezek. 39:21-29; Zech. 14; Mt. 24:29-31; Rom. 11:24-29; Rev. 19:11-21).
 
There is not one single scripture in the Bible that describes any war in Israel after the Gog-Magog war -- because there isn't one. If we accept the Battle of Armageddon as coming after Gog-Magog, then, we must accept two supernatural destructions of two gathered armies by the Lord of Hosts each led by a different Assyrian Prince, two great suppers for the fowls, two great earthquakes that shake the whole world, two mass burials of armies in a valley called Hamongog, two 7-year periods of burning weapons, and two different days about which God proclaims, "Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken."
 
Ezekiel says they will be seven months burying the dead and seven years burning the weapons. This obviously can't happen during the Tribulation Week with everything else that will be going on. Weapons of war will only be burned after Christ returns and Israel is living in perfect peace under the Prince of Peace, no Antichrist in sight and weapons of war are no longer necessary. And, it won't just be Israel that burns weapons of war. In the beginning of the Lord's Millennial Reign we will see the fulfillment of Micah 4:3.
 
"And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
 
In other words, all the nations of the world including Israel will be implementing the most massive and permanent disarmament program in history.
 
Further, the Gog-Magog war cannot take place before the Rapture when the "Restrainer of Lawlessness" is removed for obvious reasons as proved in the many Scripture references above. It cannot take place in the first half of the Tribulation Week for such an significant event would certainly have been mentioned by John separately from Armageddon if they were two separate events conducted by two separate invading "Princes". Furthermore, it is beyond credibility to think that Ezekiel would describe the invasion of Israel in the latter days by an Assyrian Prince named Gog and never once mention a war as significant as Armageddon led by another Assyrian Prince if they are two different "Princes" and two separate conflicts. Remember, Ezekiel's war and Armageddon are both described as only lasting a single day, the same day, the Day of the Lord.
 
Finally, it is only at the Second Coming and after the Battle of Armageddon that Ezekiel 39:7-8 can possibly be fulfilled:
 
Ezekiel 39:7 "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, THE HOLY ONE IN ISRAEL.
8  ¶Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken."
 
In my King James Bible (the only version I use), the phrase, "the Holy One of Israel" occurs many times and always refers to Messiah the King. But, the phrase "the Holy One IN Israel" occurs only once in Scripture, here in Ezekiel 39:7. This proves beyond doubt that Jesus Christ is physically present IN Israel after Ezekiel's war.
 
Now that we have proven that Ezekiel's war and Armageddon are the same battle, and that Gog is the Assyrian Prince we call the Antichrist, any remaining questions regarding the timing of "his two campaigns" against Israel can easily be resolved.
 
Two Invasions of Israel by Gog
 
1. The first will be in the middle of the tribulation of Daniel's 70th week, and only 10 kingdoms of the Revised Roman Empire will be with him (Dan. 11:35-45; Rev. 11:1-2). [This is when Gog, the Antichrist, takes Jerusalem, makes it his capital and enters the Temple proclaiming himself to be God.] Between this war and the fulfillment of Ezek. 38-39 the combined nations of the north and east of the 10 kingdoms will make war on Gog and these kingdoms. He will leave Israel and his capital (Jerusalem at this time), to go forth against these new enemies until they are defeated in the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week (Dan. 11:44). 
 
Daniel 11:44  But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
 
2. The second invasion of Israel by Gog will be at the end of the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week, after he has conquered the countries north and east of his 10 kingdoms inside the old Roman Empire boundary lines. By then he will have conquered Russia, and the many countries with her, becoming their ruler as well as being the ruler of the 10 kingdoms and the countries of the north and east. Gog will then lead all these to battle, and many other nations whom he has not yet conquered, but who will cooperate with him through the ministry of the 3 unclean spirits of Rev. 16:13-16. These vast armies being mobilized [at Armageddon] will converge on Israel in an effort to destroy Israel completely (Zech. 14:1-15) and stop Christ from setting up His kingdom on earth (Rev. 19:11-21). At this time all of Ezek. 38-39 will be fulfilled. Then after this battle of Armageddon Christ will set up His kingdom on earth as predicted here and in Isa. 2:2-4; 9:6-7; 11:1 -- Isa. 12:6; 63:1-6; Jer. 30-31; Dan. 7:13-14; Mic. 4; Joel 2-3; Zech. 14; Lk. 1:32-33; Rev. 11:15; 19:11 -- Rev. 20:10.
 
The only time Russia will invade Israel in fulfillment of Scripture will be as one of many conquered nations under Gog or Antichrist, when he and his armies will fight against Israel and Christ at Armageddon -- at the time of the second coming. Russia will not be under Antichrist at the time of his first invasion of Israel when he takes over Jerusalem and the Jewish temple as his capital; but she will be with him in the second conquest. The second will be necessary because of the Jews gaining control of Jerusalem again while Antichrist is away fighting against Russia and her allies in the north and east of the 10 kingdoms. Thus, after conquering these nations Gog will come back down into Israel, surround the city, take half of it, and then be suddenly defeated in one day's battle (Armageddon) by Christ and the heavenly armies (Zech. 14:1-15).
 
I feel I had to write this letter especially now with all the headlines regarding the Iranian nuclear controversy. Many people who know a little bit of Scripture are asking if the war of Ezekiel 38-39 is imminent. Many Bible scholars are falsely proclaiming that the Gog-Magog war comes concurrently with or just after the Rapture of the Church or in the beginning of the Tribulation. To me, this is not scriptural.
 
I am not saying that America or Israel or both will not attack Iran's nuclear sites and start a war with Iran. I am simply saying that Ezekiel's war is the same as the Battle of Armageddon, the final war between good and evil, and cannot not take place until the end of the 70th Week of Daniel at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. In the meantime:
 
Matthew 24:6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 
Your Brother in Christ,
Bob

---

RESPONSE

Great letter, Bob, and Semper Fi.  I was in the military, commissioned in the Army Reserves. 
 
Because your letter is a good one, I will publish it in its entirety on the page in question (with commentary).  The commentary will be added later (as soon as i have time to give the whole topic proper consideration, hopefully this weekend).  Meanwhile, let God's people know there is a legitimate scriptural reason for disagreement (and good luck to them in trying to piece it all together this afternoon, LOL).  There is no doubt that this area is one of the more difficult ones to logically piece together from the many prophecies.  The only way for this to be done correctly is to take each verse (one at a time) and redevelop the entire scenario (which I am apparently called upon to do).  To demonstrate how complex this topic is - even in Dwight Pentecost's Things to Come PhD dissertation, he seems to disagree with himself on this topic (within the 600+ page book).
 
Let me say right up front, there is NOTHING sacred to me about my previously published position.  I am willing to say right now (if your presentation proves to be correct) that your letter is a God-send to His people.   Being right about this is not my objective. I have no pride in maintaining my published view.  There is a reason I say "i might be wrong, but, the Bible is never wrong."  My only desire is to present a comprehensive and coherent analysis of the scriptures in light of current events (so that God's people may be encouraged).
 
I must say "Thank you" for writing and creating the necessity of reexamining this issue, since the scenario is likely to happen inside the next 10 years, sooner if my previously published view is correct (and the Rapture of the Church even immediately).  In any case, the objective is helping God's people to be edified, exhorted, and comforted by knowing that "Behold, I come quickly."
 
Suffice it to say (for now) that we agree on many things-
1) Eze 38-39 is connected with the endtimes
2) Gog will invade Israel
3) Antichrist will "occupy" Jerusalem
4) Antichrist will sit in the temple
5) Gog will be destroyed on the mountains of Israel
6) Antichrist is from the north
7) Gog is from the north
8) Assyria is a northern country
9) Antichrist is the Assyrian
10) Christ physically returns sometime after all the above
11) The rapture of the church precedes the above
 
I will say this - your view (and I have thought of this often in the past) more easily fits into the known political situation on the ground.  However, when the scripture seems to contradict the situation on the ground, I tend to stick with the scriptures (as I can perceive them).  The "known political situation" consists of southern Turkey, Kurdistan, US intelligence operations in that area and in Iran (and the present public relationship of the Kurds with Israel and the US with Turkey). 
 
Interestingly, I have thought the same of your Eze 38:17.  However, I put it aside (thinking my understanding of it immature) because (to me) the resulting theory appeared to contradict other scriptures. I find it humorous that even God Almighty ASKS, not declares, but ASKS, Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?"
 
Even this question is prophetic.  Does the Lord not know who Gog is?  Of course, He knows.  Why, then, does the LORD ask Gog?  Is the LORD not showing us something by asking this question of Gog?  This is a miraculous detail.  The Almighty had Ezekiel document in 587 BC our (and all other Bible prophecy students') future disagreement by ASKING a question that He knew would be disputed.  Do not mess with the Word of the Living God is the message for us all!!
 
Many believers for the past (say) 166 years have discussed these matters at length.  Many that I respect hold contradictory interpretations: Dake, Scofield, Larkin, Pentecost, etc all have their understandings and they are not and CAN NOT be identical because "Thus saith the Lord GOD: Art thou he...?"
Such is the nature of the Almighty's enlightening us on the matter.
 
In the end, we will all submit to the ultimate interpreter of scripture - HISTORY, HISTORY, that shall soon befall the world, will be our teacher.  Perhaps, before we understand this matter, the LORD of HISTORY will have already explained it to us.
 
God willing, after I return from the Ingles Grocery store with my lovely, dedicated, and hard-working wife; I will reexamine these scriptures to see if the LORD will give us a way to reconcile the matter.  It is up to the Lord only.  Blessed be the name of the LORD.
 
God bless you,
Russell


One thing I want to add to this letter - The rapture will precede Magog/Gog even in the scenario I initially presented.  Consequently, there will be no doubt as to where we are in the timeline.  The scenario presented on this page does not mislead anyone [as asserted in Bob's letter] into thinking that we are waiting on the Magog/Gog invasion (or any Iranian related events).  We are waiting on the rapture only.   I have two charts showing event sequences, Here and here.  Both charts have question marks related to the timing of the Magog invasion and both show the rapture first. 

Also, to me, the following from Bob's letter is pure speculation (and contradicts) the Gentiles trampling Israel for 42 months-
the second [invasion of Jerusalem by the antichrist] will be necessary because of the Jews gaining control of Jerusalem again while Antichrist is away fighting against Russia and her allies in the north and east of the 10 kingdoms.

My biggest question concerning a Gog=Antichrist scenario is this - if Gog is killed and fed to the vultures upon the invasion, how is he cast alive into the Lake of Fire as the antichrist (Rev 19:20)?

End 05-06-2006


05-06-2006 Part B

Additional thoughts in order of development-

First, would a repelled invasion of Gog which occurs early or prior to Daniel's 70th week not allow many people to believe that Armageddon had come and gone?  If these many people believed that Armageddon had come and gone, would not this open the door to the acceptance of a subsequent "peacemaker" as one who brings in the "Millennium?"  The scenario was discussed previously here.  There is actually a report circulating at the Pentagon claiming a Shiite apocalypse. Is the Kingdom of the real Antichrist not an IMITATION of the real Kingdom of Christ?  How can this imitation be accomplished?  What would be required? 

I want to return to the question the Lord asks in Ezekiel 38:17.  Why did the Lord not say "Thou art" instead of saying "art thou?".   Is it because the Lord in His wisdom allows this to remain a mystery?  It appears purposeful.  When I consider the totality of what is said on this page (by readers and myself), it appears that the apparent contradictions (so well pointed out by all the writers on this page) make the purposeful mystery a fact of life until some time in the future. I am not sure if it is presently possible to be dogmatic about this, considering all the points made by everyone.  Is the present "mystery" part of God's will and will this lead to the rise of the Muslim antichrist?

About six months or more ago, i set my Google alerts to deliver all news of "Assyrian Christians".  For months, virtually nothing was found.  Within the last month, Assyrian "news" has begun to increase dramatically.  Why?  All those who have written to say that Armageddon is the destruction of Gog also believe in an Assyrian antichrist.  Is it possible that the cynics of the world are going to take advantage of this belief?  Could their cynicism be promoted by planting "News" stories about the "Assyrian Christians" and their recent demands in Kurdistan?  Have we not already discussed the likelihood of US military presence in the joint operations with the Shiites? Could the 10-king Muslim confederacy be formed in a response to an Assyrian "Christian" false "antichrist" who leads an invasion against Israel only to be destroyed?  In such an eventuality, the destruction of the Assyrian, actually Gog of the scriptures, would be used to usher in the "millennium", only the "millennium" would be the tribulation instead. 

Woo, hooo!  Ding, dong, the "antichrist" is dead!!  Oops, big mistake.  I could be wrong, but, the Bible is never wrong.

Of course, such an operation could be conducted and the operation not actually be the Gog of the Bible or the antichrist of the Bible.  However, people's belief that the perpetrators were Gog and/or the antichrist, could lead to the actual reign of the antichrist.

End 05-06-2006 Part B


05-07-2006

Additional problems with Gog being the antichrist and being destroyed at Armageddon:

The Gog invasion of Eze 38-29 involves a LIMITED number of nations.  Whereas, the Armageddon invasion involves all nations against Jerusalem (Zech 14:2).  Furthermore, in the Eze 38-29 invasion, Israel is at rest and dwells safely in a land of unwalled villages.  Since the antichrist will have been persecuting Israel for 42 months at the time of Armageddon, how can it be said that this time is one when Israel is at rest and dwells safely?

From the posting of 8-21-2005:
How can Israel be at rest when Israel is being  smitten "by a rod" (Isa 30:31) and how can there be a yoke on Israel and Israel also be "at rest?"  This clearly makes the end of tribulation Gog invasion impossible (because the antichrist will have been persecuting Israel for 42 months.)

Furthermore, the stated purposes of the Armageddon invasion and the Eze 38-39 are for two different reasons:
Eze 38-39 is to take a spoil and to take a prey in a surprise attack on Israel.
Rev 19:19 says that the armies of the nations are gathered to make war against him [Jesus Christ] that sat on the horse, and against his army [the believers in heaven returning]. 

We have already pointed out that since Gog shall die on the mountains, how can he be cast ALIVE into the lake of fire after Armageddon? (Rev 19:20)

Furthermore, the Gog invasion goes no further than the mountains of Israel whereas Armageddon includes the city of Jerusalem.
The Gog invasion makes no mention of the valley of Jehoshaphat, whereas Armageddon involves the Valley of Jehoshaphat (Joel 3:2) and "Armageddon" itself is a place (Rev 16:16) known to be in the Valley of Jezreel, a place unknown to the Gog invasion.

End 05-07-2006


05-08-2006

On balance, I would have to say (due to the reasons listed in 05-07-2006) that your theory is not correct and that an "early" Gog invasion is likely.  "Early" (and Rev 19:20) precludes Gog from being the antichrist. 

However, it is my intent to take all your references to scripture and your rationale and specifically show how the verses you are using can be used to support the "early" Gog invasion which is not lead by the antichrist.

End 05-08-2006


06-09-2006

Letter from Reader

I will suggest again to you that the explanation lies in the identification of the players. Gog is Satan, not the beast , or the little horn, king of the north (you call him the antichrist).

It you get the players in the right perspective then you can understand the prophecies. Satan's game here is to mimic the relationship that God has with Jesus who is both the son of God and the Son of Man (human). Satan considers himself god, Abaddon is his christ, and the little horn is the human part. The combination of Abaddon and the little horn will be "the man of lawlessness" .... the "antichrist". The "prince that shall come" is actually Abaddon. He is the angelic king of the abyss. He can defeat other angelics and he will even stand up against the "Prince of Princes" Jesus Christ. An ordinary human cannot do these things.  

The Lord addresses Satan and calles him Gog. (He is also called Gog in Rev 20 1,000 years later). The beast is Abaddon (Satan's christ .... antichrist). He is revealed in Revelation 9:11, 11:7, 13:1-8, 17:8-14. He is the beast who comes out of the abyss.  The little horn is the king of the north ... the human king that Abaddon will incarnate. When he does this he will become the 8th king himself (he is of the 7 and  rules over 7 dominions for Satan in the Middle East. 5 are historical and 2 will exist one after the other during the 70th week. 

Once this is understood is is easy to grasp the situation. Satan (Gog) is the ruler  over Abaddon and the little horn. He will be sent to the abyss, Abaddon (the beast) will be eliminated in the lake of fire, and the human component (the little horn) will be killed and buried in Israel. This will be the result of Satan's defeat at Armageddon.
 

The Lord says "are you the one recorded in the other visions of the prophets that will come against Israel ? " Of course Satan is the one. He is not called "Gog", but is identified by other names. You know the other IDs and where they are in the other visions .... the Assyrian for one.  He is the power and authority behind the beast and the little horn. One needs to see the triad here. The Lord sees him behind all and calls him out in Ezekiel 38, 39. The Lord will force him to defeat at Armageddon after his 42 month rule. He will lose his beast, his false prophet, the little horn, and the battle for control of the earth.

Also, Ezekiel records the initial invasion against Israel which will lead to Satan's control over the nation for 42 months. The invasion will take place just before midweek. He will also conquer other Middle Eastern countries (the details are in Daniel 11:36-45).  Ezekile's vision does not include the details of the 42 month rule, but moves directly to the end of the 70th week. The Lord will defeat him at Armageddon in the 30 days (1,260 + 30 = 1,290). This short period will include the sounding of the 7th trumpet and the 7 vials of the Lord's wrath will be poured out against Satan, the beast/little horn, and followers.


Response

Well, Stephen, there are some difficulties we need to solve.  If your theory was true, it would solve some of these problems. I would be happy if we solved these .  However, I am afraid that your theory creates even more problems and is untenable.  That Satan is behind all the characters is unquestionable and perhaps you are right in a general sense, but only in a general sense.  It is entirely another thing to say that that Gog IS Satan.  More on this later. 

Take, for example, your statement that The Lord addresses Satan and calles him Gog. (He is also called Gog in Rev
20 1,000 years later).   Let's examine these verses.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive [whom?] the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, [the nations include] Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:
 -- Revelation 20:7-8  

To me, the verse you cited to show that Satan is Gog clearly demonstrates that Satan is not Gog.  Gog and Magog, in this verse is an appositive adjacent to the noun "nations."  Clearly, then, Gog and Magog represent the nations who are deceived by Satan.  Thus, Satan is not equivalent to Gog, unless Satan is also the nations and deceives himself. There are plenty of other verses concerning Gog that make it difficult for Gog to BE Satan.

Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:     
 
-- Ezekiel 38:2-3


Here is the genealogy  of  Meschech and Tubal (both are decended from Japheth).
Noah
  Japheth
     Gomer     Magog      Madai     Javan     Tubal     Meschech     Tiras
       |                                               |
       |                                               |-------Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, Dodanim
----------
Aschenaz
Riphath
Togarmah

Would we be saying that Satan is the chief prince of Meschech and Tubal?  Are we then saying that Gog is not a human being, but he is the chief prince of Mescech and Tubal?  If he is Satan, why would he be the chief prince of only Meschech and Tubal?

Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou  gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?    -- Ezekiel 38:13   So, then, are we saying that the merchants of Tarshish are going to ask Satan (Gog) these questions? 

And thou [Gog] shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a  -- Ezekiel 38:15

So, then, is Satan going to come from the north riding upon a horse?

And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.  -- Ezekiel 38:21-22
and
Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. -- Ezekiel 39:4-5

Are we saying that Satan [Gog] is going to fall on the mountains of Israel and fall upon the open field  and be given unto ravenous birds of every sort?

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. -- Ezekiel 39:11

So, then, Satan is going to be buried after having been eaten by ravenous birds?  Now, you could say that Gog is incarnated by Satan.  But, that leaves us with the problem of Satan incarnating the beast (antichrist) and Gog also.  So, (unless Gog IS the beast/antichrist) we have Satan incarnating two people.  If Gog IS the beast/antichrist, then, we have the remaining problems we cited earlier that the destruction of Gog is at a different time and at a different place than that of the antichrist.

Now, concerning Abaddon - I notice you make Abaddon a demonic being who incarnates the beast/antichrist.  There is only one mention of Abaddon in the entire Bible, Rev 9:11.  The verse refers to the angel of the bottomless pit.  Though this could be Satan,  there is nothing in the verse that says he is Satan.  Furthermore, there is no direct connection to the beast/antichrist in Rev 9:11.  The verse says Abaddon is in charge of the creatures who leave the bottomless pit as "locusts."  The angel who opened the pit is not Abaddon either, but the angel appears mightier than Abaddon in that he left the heavenly scene to open the pit.   Would you then be saying that Abaddon [Satan] has been confined to the bottomless pit until the 5th angel sounds and lets him out?  Most believe that Satan is cast out of heaven (Rev 12:9), not let out of the bottomless pit.

Now, there is a lot you are saying that is extremely helpful.  Take these phrases/sentences, for example,
The beast is Abaddon (Satan's christ .... antichrist). He is revealed in Revelation 9:11, 11:7, 13:1-8, 17:8-14. He is the beast who comes out of the abyss.  The little horn is the king of the north ... the human king that Abaddon will incarnate. When he does this he will become the 8th king himself (he is of the 7 and  rules over 7 dominions for Satan in the Middle East. 5 are historical and 2 will exist one after the other during the 70th week. 

I have very few major problems with your rendering. It is instructive and helpful to many. The only thing I would change is to call Abaddon the "son of perdition."  Even allowing for Abaddon to BE the son of perdition, this does not make Gog = beast for the reasons I have already cited.  I have studied many of the major students on this issue (Pentecost, Larkin, Darby, etc) and I am still studying them daily, especially Chapter XX (19 pages alone) of Pentecost's 1960 PhD dissertation Things to Come (600+ pages) and this page by Darby http://stempublishing.com/authors/darby/NOTESCOM/44006_13E.html.  NONE of these men believe that Gog IS the antichrist and neither do I.  NONE of them believe Gog is Satan either.  The reason I am studying these two?  They disagree with me enough to challenge me to present a unified presentation of the prophecies - the only thing I seek.  By the way, so do you and we all thank you.

End 06-09-2006


06-11-2006

READER of 06-09-2006 RESPONDS
I read your response and here is what I would say. It's is probably my explanation that is lacking, so let me try this again. Satan, the beast, and the little horn are three different entities. They are not the same, but connected. When the Lord addresses Gog, he is addressing Satan who is His direct adversary on His level. He does not address the beast or the little horn, but goes right to the top in Ezekiel's vision. "Gog" is not a people, but an individual. The Land of Magog is a place, not the people who rule there after the flood.

Satan is the power behind Abaddon who is another fallen angelic who has ruled over 5 human ancient Middle Eastern empires and their kings (the king position) for Satan in the past. This is why he has 7 heads (dominions). He is in the abyss at the present time and went there after his rule over the northern Greek kings (his 5th head) before the first century. We learn about this in the Lord's Revelation to John. Daniel sees the little horn (the human component) in his visions, but if you look closely you will find that Abaddon and Satan are there as well.


Abaddon will come out of the abyss at the time of the end (70th week) to rule for Satan again. He can not operate while confined in the abyss. His target incarnation will be the little horn who appears in Daniel, but not in Revelation ..... he is there but he has been possessed by Abaddon who is the beast. Abaddon is the only entity in Revelation who fits the beast who once was (ruling), is not, and comes out of the abyss to rule again. His rulership (head) will be healed. He is the one who kills the two witnesses, 
 he is the one described in Revelation 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, and 19. There is no other entity in Revelation that fits all of these references.

When the Lord addresses Satan as Gog He calls him the "prince" of Mesheck and Tubal. Satan is a fallen angelic "prince" and in fact was influencing the human leadership of these commercial centers which developed shortly after the flood. These were located in the Land of Magog and were founded by Magog's two brothers. Satan has many other avenues for corrupting humanity, but this ID is given because of the ancient location (same place at the time of the end ... different people) ) and because Satan likes commerce (the seeds of corruption are prevalent in human materialism, greed, and wealth).Abaddon is also an angelic "prince" who rebelled with Satan (followed him)  and is the "prince that shall come". Satan gives his power and authority to this beast as stated in Revelation 13. The little horn, human king of the north, is the instrument used by Abaddon to be seen and experienced by human's.

At the battle of Armageddon Abaddon is exterminated in the lake of fire, the little horn will die physically and be buried in Israel  (this is what will be visible to humans), and Satan will be sent to the abyss where Abaddon was imprisoned. Satan will then be released from the abyss 1,000 years later to deceive the nations that develop during the Lord's millennial rule .... that is "Gog" (Satan) and "Magog" (symbolic for the nations 1,000 years earlier). 

Understand the triad relationship which these three separate entities have and you will have your answers.  Satan will be thrown and confined to the earth during the 70th week and his angelic followers will be with him to engage in the hour of trial that is coming upon the whole world. Abaddon and the abyss angelics will be released, 4 principal fallen angelics and 200 million others who are bound at the Euphrates River will be released, and the powers and principalities of the air (free fallen angelics) will all be on the earth for direct interaction with an unbeleiving world. 

"Woe unto the inhabitants of the earth because the devil has come to you with great Wrath for he knows his time will be short" ....... to conquer the earth and rule it through his beast and the human component of the little horn.  He will do this for 42 months and then his kingdom will be destroyed by the Lord at Armageddon. He will lose his angelic christ ("antichrist"), his false prophet (also a fallen angelic), his human king of the north, and many human followers (I believe these will be Islamic). He will then be imprisoned in the abyss (where Abaddon was before his release) for 1,000 years. I believe that Islam will be Abaddon's cult religion. I also believe that his little horn will be a Middle Eastern ruler just like you do. Satan has been working on this one for a long time and when he presents his christ ("antichrist") all of Islam will worship him as a god. They will worship the "lie", the man of lawlessness, the little horn who will be possessed by Abaddon. 

I have Clarence Larkin's works as well and place much of my understanding there, but there are new things we can learn and discern as we move toward the time of the end. You have done this yourself and I believe you can understand what I am presenting with regard to this subject. Run it through your model again. Revisit all of the prophetic visions and other related Scriptures. You will see it.

MY RESPONSE
[by the way, Clarence Larkin never goes into the identity of Gog.]  Stephen's phrases are indented and in italics.

. Satan, the beast, and the little horn are three different entities. They are not the same, but connected.

 

I agree so far because the “beast” is a demonic being, you call him Abaddon, the Bible does not.  The Bible does call him “son of perdition” (2 Thess 2:3)

 

When the Lord addresses Gog, he is addressing Satan who is His direct adversary on His level. He does not address the beast or the little horn, but goes right to the top in Ezekiel's vision. "Gog" is not a people, but an individual.

 

What individual? A man like you and me or Satan?  No one believes Gog is a people.  Everyone believes Gog is an individual. You say he is also Satan.  My question- is he a man or not?  If he IS a man, is he a different man than the little horn or is he the same man as the little horn?  That is what we are discussing on this page.

 

The Land of Magog is a place, not the people who rule there after the flood.

 

All agree that Magog is a land.

 

Satan is the power behind Abaddon

 

Satan is behind all fallen angels, yes.

 

who is another fallen angelic who has ruled over 5 human ancient Middle Eastern empires and their kings (the king position) for Satan in the past. This is why he has 7 heads (dominions). He is in the abyss at the present time and went there after his rule over the northern Greek kings (his 5th head) before the first century. We learn about this in the Lord's Revelation to John.

 

We never learn all this from the Bible.  It might be true, but, only from inference, and vague inference at that.  I am not referring to heads etc; I am referring to the speculation that the beast IS Abadddon.  It is never stated.

 

Daniel sees the little horn (the human component) in his visions, but if you look closely you will find that Abaddon and Satan are there as well.

 

Same comment as above.  There is a “beast”, yes.  It is demonic, yes. But, is it Abaddon?

 

Abaddon will come out of the abyss at the time of the end (70th week) to rule for Satan again.

 

The Bible does not say that (i.e, Abaddon is the beast or that Abaddon rules).

 

He can not operate while confined in the abyss. His target incarnation will be the little horn who appears in Daniel, but not in Revelation ..... he is there but he has been possessed by Abaddon who is the beast.

 

I agree with all (except for my purposes it does not matter if Abaddon is the beast or not); my focus is on Gog and this problem is not solved with your rendering.  We agree there IS a beast and it is not the little horn.  It might be Abaddon.  But whether it is Abaddon or not, the Gog problem is not solved and that is the remaining subject of this page.

 

Abaddon is the only entity in Revelation who fits the beast who once was (ruling), is not, and comes out of the abyss to rule again. His rulership (head) will be healed. He is the one who kills the two witnesses,  

 

The Bible says the beast kills the two witnesses but it does not say Abaddon kills them. Abaddon is the only NAMED entity in (not from) the bottomless pit.  (One question - if Abaddon is the beast, why do his minions torment his OWN WORSHIPERS (Rev 9:4)? ) The purpose of the scorpions (whose king is Abaddon) is to torment the unbelievers. Furthermore, it never says that Abaddon reigned on earth previously.  It does say that Abaddon is the angel over the bottomless pit.  To me, that makes Abaddon DIFFERENT from any beast that formerly reigned over a Grecian empire.  Abaddon is the keeper of the pit, not a temporary resident.  In fact, it is not said that Abaddon leaves the pit.  His “locusts” leave the pit.  Even allowing for the fact that Abaddon is the beast and he does leave the pit, it does not help us with our Gog issue.

 

he is the one described in Revelation 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, and 19. There is no other entity in Revelation that fits all of these references.

 

When the Lord addresses Satan as Gog He calls him the "prince" of Mesheck and Tubal. Satan is a fallen angelic "prince" and in fact was influencing the human leadership of these commercial centers which developed shortly after the flood. These were located in the Land of Magog and were founded by Magog's two brothers. Satan has many other avenues for corrupting humanity, but this ID is given because of the ancient location (same place at the time of the end ... different people) ) and because Satan likes commerce (the seeds of corruption are prevalent in human materialism, greed, and wealth).

 

Is Gog a man or not?

 

Abaddon is also an angelic "prince" who rebelled with Satan (followed him)  and is the "prince that shall come".

 

Speculation.

 

Satan gives his power and authority to this beast as stated in Revelation 13. The little horn, human king of the north, is the instrument used by Abaddon to be seen and experienced by human's.

 

See above.

 

At the battle of Armageddon Abaddon is exterminated in the lake of fire, the little horn will die physically and be buried in Israel  (this is what will be visible to humans), and Satan will be sent to the abyss where Abaddon was imprisoned. Satan will then be released from the abyss 1,000 years later to deceive the nations that develop during the Lord's millennial rule .... that is "Gog" (Satan) and "Magog" (symbolic for the nations 1,000 years earlier).

 

Ezekiels says Gog dies on the mountains of Israel. So, then, you are saying that Gog is a man and he is the little horn also and that he dies at the battle of Armageddon?  If that is what you are saying, then how do you answer the following problems?   http://jesus-is-the-way.com/Gog.html#Problems

 

The Gog invasion of Eze 38-29 involves a LIMITED number of nations.  Whereas, the Armageddon invasion involves all nations against Jerusalem (Zech 14:2).  Furthermore, in the Eze 38-29 invasion, Israel is at rest and dwells safely in a land of unwalled villagesSince the antichrist will have been persecuting Israel for 42 months at the time of Armageddon, how can it be said that this time is one when Israel is at rest and dwells safely?

From the posting of 8-21-2005:
How can Israel be
at rest when Israel is being  smitten "by a rod" (Isa 30:31) and how can there be a yoke on Israel and Israel also be "at rest
?"  This clearly makes the end of tribulation Gog invasion impossible (because the antichrist will have been persecuting Israel for 42 months.)

Furthermore, the stated purposes of the Armageddon invasion and the Eze 38-39 are for two different reasons:
Eze 38-39 is to take a
spoil and to take a prey
in a surprise attack on Israel.
Rev 19:19 says that the armies of the nations are gathered to
make war against him [Jesus Christ] that sat on the horse, and against his army
[the believers in heaven returning]. 

We have already pointed out that since Gog shall die on the mountains, how can he be cast ALIVE into the lake of fire after Armageddon? (Rev 19:20)  MORE IMPORTANTLY TODAY (06-11-2006) –
IF GOG ATTACKS ISRAEL AT A TIME WHEN ISRAEL IS AT REST, HOW CAN THAT BE AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION?  ISRAEL IS NOT AT REST AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING PERSECUTED BY THE BEAST INCARNATE IN THE LITTLE HORN!!  THIS MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOG TO BE THE LITTLE HORN.

Furthermore, the Gog invasion goes no further than the mountains of Israel whereas Armageddon includes the city of Jerusalem.
The Gog invasion makes no mention of the valley of Jehoshaphat, whereas Armageddon involves the Valley of Jehoshaphat (Joel 3:2) and "Armageddon" itself is a place (Rev 16:16) known to be in the Valley of Jezreel, a place unknown to the Gog invasion.

 

Stephen,

I believe we covered this ground before on 8-21-2005.

See 08-21-2005 above.

 

Quoting my response then-

 

Well, Stephen,

 

If, as you say, the antichrist is Gog and is destroyed at the 2nd coming (as described in Eze), then, the following questions still apply-

 

 Since the Bible is clear that the antichrist does establish his palaces in Jerusalem/Israel, why would the antichrist then invade from outside Israel (the north) when he is already in Israel occupying his headquarters?  Now, we can go on and on about this.

If Gog comes from the north at the end of Daniel's 70th week (as you say),  what is he doing in the "north"?  I thought he was in the temple showing himself to be God.  Did he leave and go north?  If so, why?  How is it that the Lord manifests himself to even the heathen by allowing Gog (as you say) to trample all over Israel/Jerusalem for 42 months in the temple in Jerusalem?  Did the antichrist get kicked out of the temple?  Did he leave voluntarily?

 

So, you must be saying that the following verses are 7 years long-

 

It shall come to pass at the SAME TIME when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken; surely in that day there shall be a great quaking in the land of Israel;...I will plead against him...  I will rain upon him...rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone... Eze 38:18-38:22  These 5 verses say clearly that at the time Gog comes against the land of Israel, the Lord will destroy him

 

For Gog to be the antichrist is impossible, since the antichrist will already have OCCUPIED Israel for 42 months.  What would he be doing coming against the land of Israel (from the north parts) Eze 39:2, if he is ALREADY in Jerusalem posing as God?  Your interpretation goes against the plain sense of the verse.  The use of the words AT THE SAME TIME can not be changed to be 7 years or 3 and one half years in length.

 

Especially this today on 6-11-2006-

If Gog ATTACKS ISRAEL AT A TIME WHEN ISRAEL IS AT REST, HOW CAN THAT BE AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION?  ISRAEL IS NOT AT REST AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING PERSECUTED BY THE BEAST INCARNATE IN THE LITTLE HORN.!!  THIS MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOG TO BE THE LITTLE HORN.
 

These questions have not been answered, Stephen, and until they are answered we are forced to say that Gog and the little horn are two different men (even though both men could be incarnated by Satan [or the beast, whatever his name happens to be].)


Stephen, if you can solve this, I would be delighted.

End 06-11-2006


06-17-2006

Letter from Reader

In your notes on Gog as "antichrist/Assyrian" I did not notice that you referred to Ezekiel 39:9 which says:
And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

So, it would seem that the Gog invasion would (in the very least) gave to occur at the beginning of the Tribulation period.
Secondly (and please clarify for me if I am on the wrong track) as I read Revelation and Daniel, I cannot find that the first half (42 months) of the Trib has any persecution or trials for Christians. I am a Pre-Trib believer, but as I view the Scriptures I begin to lean more to the Mid-Trib theory since only with the Abomination does persecution begin!
 
Most sincere and gracious Thanks!

Response

David,
Thank you for your Gog notes.  I am always glad to receive more information.
Many others have referred to the 7 years as indicative of the tribulation.
If it does refer to the tribulation (and it does not have to), it would require the invasion to immediately precede the tribulation.
If it does not refer to the tribulation, one wonders why it is exactly 7 years.
This is the position I have taken on the site (with a question mark appended)- the Gog invasion immediately precedes the trib.
The latest that the Gog invasion could be is mid-trib (in my estimation).
 
Regarding this-
I cannot find that the first half (42 months) of the Trib has any persecution or trials for Christians. I am a Pre-Trib believer, but as I view the Scriptures I begin to lean more to the Mid-Trib theory since only with the Abomination does persecution begin!
 
The most untenable position is the mid-trib rapture says Dwight Pentecost in his book Things To Come.  He analyzes extensively all 3 positions- pre, mid, post. If you do not have a copy, i suggest you get it.  On the topic of rapture timing analysis, it is excellent.
 
On this page- http://jesus-is-the-way.com/Rapture.html over 20 reasons are listed from this book showing why the pre-trib rapture is the truth. The key point that most fail to consider is the Covenant relationship with the Jews and with the Church (as separate and distinct).  In a mid-trib scenario, the Church and Jew are indistinguishable.  In fact, the Jew becomes non-existent in such a scenario (from God's perspective, the only perspective that counts).  The believing Jew is a part of the church and, as such, the Jew therefore is no longer a Jew in the Church Age.  The remnant of the Jews is the subject of Daniel's 70th week.  If the church be a part of it (in a mid-trib scenario), then, it would have to be Daniel's half week because there would be no Jews in the 1st half.  God intends to have Daniel's 70th week and NOBODY is going to stop Him, including people who believe in mid-trib.
 
God bless you, David.

End 06-17-2006


08-16-2006

EMAIL FROM READER

Shalom Russell,

 Question One: 
In the past few months, I am beginning to hear more and more well known Bible prophecy teachers, etc. predicting and ‘immanent’ Russian/Iranian led invasion of
Israel, based on Ezekiel chpts. 38 - 39.  Accordingly, it is assumed that this alleged invasion of Israel will most likely precede the revelation of the man Antichrist.  In addition, it is further suggested that this event will likely occur just briefly before or shortly thereafter the rapture of the Church. 
With these above predictions in mind I humbly ask, “How can such a war event transpire before the ‘END’ of the Great Tribulation in respect of the following Ezekiel chpt. 39 Scripture?”

Ezekiel 39:7

    So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.

  In light of the above, it is Biblically well documented that the man Antichrist will set up his final capital and throne, with resulting Beast worship, within the futuristic spiritually fallen idolatrous city of Jerusalem (Mystery Babylon?) for the last 31/2 years of the Great Tribulation. 
Daniel 11:45

    And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.   

 

Question Two:

 
Regarding the ‘Ten Kings’ aka the ‘Ten Toes’ of Daniel’s great image I suggest, if the legs of iron of this great image were symbolic of the old Roman Empire (and they were) then, there should be five
contiguous kings (countries) from the Eastern division and five contiguous countries from the Western division of the Empire.  According to historical evidence, the Roman Empire was comprised of two division capitals with the Western capital being that of Rome and the Eastern division capital being Constantinople (today’s Istanbul Turkey). 
As such, the Eastern border of the Empire began at
Constantinople and progressed eastward.  In addition, it must be noted that by all relevant historical records: the Eastern division of the Empire never included the land of Persia (today’s Iran).  <>
Thus, do all of the five prophetic Eastern Kings (countries) lie form
Constantinople (Istanbul) east?  <>
Until His Trumpet Sounds,


RESPONSE

Well, in regards to question #1, it seems more difficult that the Gog invasion is at the end of the tribulation than at the beginning.  Above, I said this-
Gog invades when Israel is at peace Eze 38:11.  Since you have the Gog invasion at the end of the tribulation, are you saying that the occupation of Israel and the persecution of the Jews by the antichrist during the 42 months constitutes "at rest", "dwell safely" and within "unwalled villages?" How can Israel be at rest when Israel is being  smitten "by a rod" (Isa 30:31) and how can there be a yoke on Israel and Israel also be "at rest?"  This clearly makes the end of tribulation Gog invasion impossible.

Also, if this logic is correct, there must be a logical explanation for Eze 39:7.  When God directly intervenes and destroys the Gog invaders, the heathen (Gentiles) WILL know that He is the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.  Now the Lord's Holy Name will be known in the midst of His people Israel. Remember, only a remnant are saved.  The saved remnant of Israel are not the same as the secular nation of Israel, which will be judged during the tribulation.  The secular nation will make the covenant with hell.  Further, acknowledging that the Lord executed judgment upon Gog is not the same as accepting Jesus as the true God and Savior.  Such acceptance by the remnant does not come until they mourn for Him upon recognizing His Messiahship upon His physical return.

In regards to question #2, I had previously taken the position that there would be 5 kings from the East and 5 from the West (until a reader pointed out Psalms 83).  The notion made sense to me.  However, Psalms 83 seems to place the 10 kings all in the East.  I have maintained that the strategy being employed by the Roman Church to gain its long sought Eastern domination is at the root of its policies.  Perhaps, this fulfills the symbolism to which you refer.  If it does not, we are yet to completely understand the prophecy.

End 08-16-2006




How is a Man Saved?


Home Page


The promise that was originally on the main page.

05-31-2004

This website was established two years ago in May of 2002.  Two years later our hearts are being guided into the patient waiting  for the coming of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  For this I am truly thankful.  The Lord seems to accelerate and slow down the process alternatively as if He is speaking to us. We do not know how long the Lord may tarry, but  we know that He is coming just as He promised.  We are " Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our saviour Jesus Christ ." (Titus 2:13)

As we often say about all the current events analysis on this website; it could well be wrong.  However, the Word of God is never wrong.  Our understanding of the prophecy may be wrong; but, the Word is never wrong.  The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ draws near.  It does not matter what particulars (if any) of this website prove right.  What matters is that we understand the urgency of the situation, especially for those we know are still lost.  This website is not about me or my opinions. This website is a study of the scriptures in the light of current events.  It is not some bold assertion or prediction.  It is an attempt to demonstrate the ever increasing likelihood of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ (with the difficult objective of maintaining a viewpoint that reconciles with all the scriptures).   Toward this end, I always try to return to this principle - " what does the Bible text itself say? " Let us forget our prejudices and our presumptions and listen to the text of the Bible. We need to diligently study the Bible .  One sure fire barrier to truth is to believe we have all of it already.  I mean this sincerely - Please pray for me that I always honor the Lord and speak the truth, in love.

If you have information that would be helpful in meeting this goal, please contact me. One of the great blessings and thrills of maintaining this website is hearing from you the reader.

 -Love, Russell

P.S. Toward this objective I will be publishing an emerging study called Gog, the Antichrist, the Assyrian, & the Timing of Ezekiel 38.  Once the study has any substance to it, I will let you know.  I truly believe that a proper understanding of this topic will enable us to follow the coming events.  We have already stated that we are expecting two contradictory (but simultaneous) trends - one toward peace and the other toward war.  I believe this topic will move us in a study direction which provides discernment.

End 05-31-2004